Interview with Pam Richardson
Transcription:
Vernon Fleming 00:00
For the Louisa County Historical Society. I wear two hats, I'm on the board of Goochland. But I'm here interviewing for the Freedom of Choice Project that is looking at the integration of Louisa County High School in 1965. So if you don't mind introducing yourself and share what year you were in school in 1965.
Pamela Richardson 00:22
Pamela Richardson and I was a junior at Louisa County High School in 1965.
Vernon Fleming 00:28
How long have you lived in Louisa?
Pamela Richardson 00:30
Since I was two. I did, you know, went away to college and lived in Atlanta for a number of years. But we moved back here in 75. So I've been back in Louisa.
Vernon Fleming 00:45
Okay. Now, you were here in 1965. So how did you learn about the integration that was going to occur?
Pamela Richardson 00:54
Well, let me just say that my memories are horrible because I have so few memories associated with that event. I don't have any memory of my parents telling me or seeing anything on the news, but I also don't have a memory of being shocked or surprised when I went to school and there were Black students in the class. I don't know how much of that is just a failure of memory, or how much of it- and as I've looked at the questions and thought about it, I suspect it was a descriptive of my awareness of race relations. You know, it just wasn't an issue. It wasn't something I thought about, you know,
Vernon Fleming 01:46
You're not alone at all, the majority of the folks that I've talked to had the same reaction that they weren't conscious of any difference. Now, I'm not sure if that's because the mindset to your head and the homes you were raised in that was a non issue, because some of the and, again, I shouldn't be doing all talking, some of the black students did have, you know, encounters that was not pleasant. But it's good to know that in your home, evidently, your parents did not see any need to prep you for in any way.
Pamela Richardson 02:24
Not at all. Yeah, I just don't have any unpleasant racial memories. And I've really thought about, you know, we had neighbors, men would sometimes come and help my papa, for hog killing. I remember in particular, there was one set of neighbors and there was an alcoholic in the family, you know, and the heard comment about him being in the ditch, drunk in the ditch, but it didn't have any racial overtones. And I think we had another family where there was a white alcoholic drunk in the ditch, too.
Vernon Fleming 03:02
What part of the county did you grow up in?
Pamela Richardson 03:04
Down in the lower end, eastern part of the county. We were very close to where the Orchid Post Office was.
Vernon Fleming 03:13
Yeah.
Pamela Richardson 03:13
And so the black school at (unclear) was very close to where I live.
Vernon Fleming 03:21
Okay. So when you entered school, did you hear any other students talking about Black students?
Pamela Richardson 03:29
I didn't hear anything about that. Now, in my grade, I only remember one Black female student and the rest were males. And so I've had the feeling that the guys in my class were more connected and more interacted. But I also had the feeling that they were just accepted. I never heard a negative comment. Isn't that just insane?
Vernon Fleming
No, it's not. So you mentioned one Black girl that was a classmate. Did you have much contact with her on a social basis?
Pamela Richardson
Zero, I would say. I think we only had one class together and I think that was typing class. And she, my impression was she was very shy, and not very outgoing. Which is fascinating, because we had our 50th class reunion a few years ago. And she was the most sophisticated, attractive, vivacious person there. I mean, I would never have recognized her from high school.
Vernon Fleming 04:44
Interesting.
Pamela Richardson 04:45
Yeah.
Vernon Fleming 04:48
So thinking back to activities at the school, now were you involved in any extracurricular activities?
Pamela Richardson 04:56
Yeah, I was pretty involved. I was the editor of the newspaper, I guess I was the junior editor under Steve Harris, my junior year and then editor my senior year and I was a cheerleader. So I was pretty involved in that.
Vernon Fleming 05:16
Okay. Now, do you recall any Black students participating in any extracurricular activities?
Pamela Richardson 05:22
Oh, I know they played sports. Certainly, we did not have any Black cheerleaders either year that I was there. I don't remember any trying out. I don't know about that. I don't think there were any on the newspapers there. So just sports. I wanted to ask my cousin, there was this club for guys in the high school called the Interact Club. And I was very curious whether any of the Black students were in the Interact Club?
Vernon Fleming 05:59
No. I think later on, like my senior year there may have been, I think when fully integrated, but yeah, prior to that, they were not. As far as looking at the teachers did you observe any, and I guess if you didn't share any classes with any other Blacks except the typing class-
Pamela Richardson 06:16
Well, I know there were some of the Black guys in my other classes. I had a number of classes with Joe, I'm sure. No, I never saw them treated any differently. Never heard any disparaging remarks.
Vernon Fleming 06:40
Okay. So from an acceptance standpoint as far as your peers, not from your standpoint, but your other classmates you didn't see anything you observed that made you feel that they may not have been accepted?
Pamela Richardson 06:54
I did not.
Vernon Fleming 06:55
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 06:55
Yeah, but obviously, I was totally just in my own world or something.
Vernon Fleming 07:00
Yeah. So as the year went on having been there I guess your eighth, ninth and tenth grade year, any differences or change in the way the school operated?
Pamela Richardson 07:14
Not that I was aware of.
Vernon Fleming 07:16
Dances, prom? Anything else was different?
Pamela Richardson 07:18
No, I assume that they were at the dances and the prom, but I don't know the answer to that question.
Vernon Fleming 07:27
Okay. Are you aware of any students that may have left high school to avoid integrating?
Pamela Richardson 07:35
Yes.
Vernon Fleming 07:35
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 07:35
There was one. And she was, you know, part of the Louisa aristocracy.
Vernon Fleming 07:40
Okay. Now, again, glad you didn't call any names. We're not calling names. Do you think that was the students decision? Or was she persuaded by parents or others?
Pamela Richardson 07:52
I suspect she had no part in the decision.
Vernon Fleming 07:54
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 07:55
But I don't personally know that. She was just a very quiet, compliant person,
Vernon Fleming 08:01
But that's the only one you aware of.
Pamela Richardson 08:03
That's the only one I'm aware of.
Vernon Fleming 08:05
Did she transfer before '65 or after?
Pamela Richardson 08:09
I do not believe she was there in '65.
Vernon Fleming 08:12
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 08:12
When we came back to school that fall. And Elaine pointed out, Louisa lost its accreditation about that time and I don't know if there was a connection. I do know as a senior when I went to interview for college that was an issue that I raised, that my high school had lost its accreditation, would that affect my college entry? And so Elaine pointed out that well, maybe that was the reason her family sent her to another school was that Louisa had lost its accreditation. It may not have been racial, but.
Vernon Fleming 08:48
I was not aware of that. But it so was the accreditation was lost the entire two years that you remained at Louisa? Your junior and senior year?
Pamela Richardson 08:58
As far as I know it was. I certainly know it was my senior year when I went to interview and I had no idea why. Now from this perspective, I wonder if there was some federal or state pressure on the county to integrate and that was a consequence, but I wasn't aware of that at the time.
Vernon Fleming 09:19
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 09:24
Elaine said that she interviewed Frank Drumheller, who was on the school board during that time and they discussed that whole Louisa losing its accreditation, so if you're interested in following that up somewhere here there's a record of that.
Vernon Fleming 09:41
I recall him being the principal of Apple Grove during those years.
Pamela Richardson 09:45
Interesting. Not while I was there, I don't think but.
Vernon Fleming 09:50
Yeah, because I drove the school bus and we stopped, but I recall him being a principal at Apple Grove. That entire period, especially when I was a senior. I'll take a look at that interview. I think you've already answered this, but if transferring to private school, if that was an option for you would you have done that, you think?
Pamela Richardson 10:19
I can't imagine I would have.
Vernon Fleming 10:24
Having been at Louisa, during this integration, even though you said it was kind of-
Pamela Richardson 10:29
Non-issue.
Vernon Fleming 10:31
Not an issue. Do you think it impacted you later in life as far as having had that experience?
Pamela Richardson 10:40
I'm kind of neutral, no impact. It has been shocking to me to see how naive I was, and it almost feels intentional way of keeping. And for me, it felt like women from being aware of what was going on in the world, and it might have been presented as a way of just protecting her, but the result of it was to be totally lost and oblivious to suffering or injustice or any of the things that were going on around me. And obviously, as soon as I got to college, my consciousness just you know, I went to Duke, okay. And we had a small but very active Black population. And my junior year, I moved into a transitional neighborhood in Durham and participated in a tutoring program for that neighborhood. My husband-to-be was a big basketball player, you know, so we always sat with the Black students section at the basketball games and refuse to stand during the national anthem. I mean, you know, I really got an education once I got out of Louisa, but boy, I was just raised in a bubble.
Vernon Fleming 12:18
Okay. That's the point. You say you sat in the black section in basketball? You were it? Was that just where the black set? Or was it? Yeah, that was an area designated for Black?
Pamela Richardson 12:27
Oh, no, no, that was a conscious decision of Black students and Black Students United.
Vernon Fleming 12:35
Okay. Yeah. Now, were the other whites that sat with him also, or you're kind of unique. And were you accept it?
Pamela Richardson 12:43
We will certainly accept the match and there was some amusement, you know, in you know, when you're in love, you know, you don't really know what's going on.
Vernon Fleming 12:57
So Scott was your husband, friend, he was an athlete, basketball player?
Pamela Richardson 13:02
No. Well, he came to do on a soccer scholarship, but he didn't keep his grades up high enough to play his freshman year, so I think he still played on the golf team.
Vernon Fleming 13:21
Is there anything I guess we haven't talked about that you want to share about your experience and 1965, 66?
Pamela Richardson 13:29
I have really struggled whether talk about this or not, so y'all can just wait. Um, I was really attracted to one of the Black male students in high school. He was just smart and charming and good looking. And you know, the tall, dark, handsome stranger. And I never acted on that. I think we were friends and we enjoyed each other's company. But I think the risk that would have put him at if either of us had acted on that is just just really disturbing to me. And that's part of the danger of being so naive about the world
Vernon Fleming 14:18
is actually share that because early today, a white male classmate, it's clear to me that he was in school when you were there, said he found Black female attractive, and he contemplated asking her out, but sort of like you thought problems not a good thing to do. So makes you wonder whether or not those who were opposed integration was afraid of just that fact that there will be attraction and dating and absolutely, that was a big fear of a lot of folks who were racist, right. Interesting. Yeah. appreciate you sharing that and not No names were called now will be mentioned. But no, that's that's an interesting point and but it also speaks to that you did not see colors a barrier, which says a lot, but many did see color. And like the some of the folks we interviewed earlier, the black students had had clearly different experiences that were not pleasant.
Pamela Richardson 15:25
Yeah. And that's the thing about racism, I think at that time is it was so under the radar. I mean, I'm sure they knew Blair it was okay. To be vocal and where you needed to keep it under the radar.
Vernon Fleming 15:42
Now thinking about making six, five living and lose account, and I'm not sure how frequently you came into metro or town, Louisa, but were there any visible signs of segregation that you recall saying,
Pamela Richardson 15:58
Now, you know, cautioned me to be sure that I gave my responses from that time and not from what I know now. I don't know how old I was when I heard it. It's not safe to be a Black person in Mineral after dark. I've heard that before. And I don't know that I knew that during high school. I did have a friend from Mineral. I had a couple of friends from Louisa.
Vernon Fleming 16:29
Black or white?
Pamela Richardson 16:30
White. But now my social life was you know, either at the high school or at church, which was down in eastern end of the county. I guess they were dances at the bar hall.
Vernon Fleming 16:49
Did you go to any of those dances?
Pamela Richardson 16:51
I remember going to at the Girl Scout Hall. Okay. And Elisa? And or at the in the gym at the high school? Okay. Yeah.
Vernon Fleming 17:04
Do you recall any of those being attended by blacks?
Pamela Richardson 17:08
I don't. But I don't either. I don't remember either way.
Vernon Fleming 17:17
Yeah, and someone share that that was a basketball athletic postseason awards that I guess we could come in. It was that sacred restaurant. And that black player at the time, was the first one that he'd ever seen, you know, that they allowed into sacred restaurant. So I'm not sure if you had any experiences with restaurants that were segregated?
Pamela Richardson 17:43
Well, again, you're saying that I remember hearing that Black people had to go to like a window, they could buy food there, but they had to go to an outside window to pick up their food. But I don't I don't know when I learned that.
Vernon Fleming 18:00
And I never went to (unclear) but I vividly remember a lot of places that Blacks could not go inside, that you had to buy food at a window. You could not eat, they had picnic table set up, you couldn't eat at the picnic table, you had to eat in your car. And I remember those days very well. Good. Anything else that you'd like to share, and again, don't want you to throw anyone under the bus. Just things you may remember that may be relevant for this project, trying to at least paint a picture of 1965 and what it was like to be part of that integration of Louisa High.
Pamela Richardson 18:46
The only other thing I can think of was that either junior or senior year, we had a debate. And you would certainly think that that would have been a subject of debate, but I think the debate was on the Vietnam War. So just terms of sort of my political consciousness, the War was certainly a much more prominent issue than race relations.
Vernon Fleming 19:18
Okay. Well, Dr. Richardson, thank you so much and I appreciate you coming in and being so candid in your responses. That's what we wanted. We want to just, you know, true feelings and-
For the Louisa County Historical Society. I wear two hats, I'm on the board of Goochland. But I'm here interviewing for the Freedom of Choice Project that is looking at the integration of Louisa County High School in 1965. So if you don't mind introducing yourself and share what year you were in school in 1965.
Pamela Richardson 00:22
Pamela Richardson and I was a junior at Louisa County High School in 1965.
Vernon Fleming 00:28
How long have you lived in Louisa?
Pamela Richardson 00:30
Since I was two. I did, you know, went away to college and lived in Atlanta for a number of years. But we moved back here in 75. So I've been back in Louisa.
Vernon Fleming 00:45
Okay. Now, you were here in 1965. So how did you learn about the integration that was going to occur?
Pamela Richardson 00:54
Well, let me just say that my memories are horrible because I have so few memories associated with that event. I don't have any memory of my parents telling me or seeing anything on the news, but I also don't have a memory of being shocked or surprised when I went to school and there were Black students in the class. I don't know how much of that is just a failure of memory, or how much of it- and as I've looked at the questions and thought about it, I suspect it was a descriptive of my awareness of race relations. You know, it just wasn't an issue. It wasn't something I thought about, you know,
Vernon Fleming 01:46
You're not alone at all, the majority of the folks that I've talked to had the same reaction that they weren't conscious of any difference. Now, I'm not sure if that's because the mindset to your head and the homes you were raised in that was a non issue, because some of the and, again, I shouldn't be doing all talking, some of the black students did have, you know, encounters that was not pleasant. But it's good to know that in your home, evidently, your parents did not see any need to prep you for in any way.
Pamela Richardson 02:24
Not at all. Yeah, I just don't have any unpleasant racial memories. And I've really thought about, you know, we had neighbors, men would sometimes come and help my papa, for hog killing. I remember in particular, there was one set of neighbors and there was an alcoholic in the family, you know, and the heard comment about him being in the ditch, drunk in the ditch, but it didn't have any racial overtones. And I think we had another family where there was a white alcoholic drunk in the ditch, too.
Vernon Fleming 03:02
What part of the county did you grow up in?
Pamela Richardson 03:04
Down in the lower end, eastern part of the county. We were very close to where the Orchid Post Office was.
Vernon Fleming 03:13
Yeah.
Pamela Richardson 03:13
And so the black school at (unclear) was very close to where I live.
Vernon Fleming 03:21
Okay. So when you entered school, did you hear any other students talking about Black students?
Pamela Richardson 03:29
I didn't hear anything about that. Now, in my grade, I only remember one Black female student and the rest were males. And so I've had the feeling that the guys in my class were more connected and more interacted. But I also had the feeling that they were just accepted. I never heard a negative comment. Isn't that just insane?
Vernon Fleming
No, it's not. So you mentioned one Black girl that was a classmate. Did you have much contact with her on a social basis?
Pamela Richardson
Zero, I would say. I think we only had one class together and I think that was typing class. And she, my impression was she was very shy, and not very outgoing. Which is fascinating, because we had our 50th class reunion a few years ago. And she was the most sophisticated, attractive, vivacious person there. I mean, I would never have recognized her from high school.
Vernon Fleming 04:44
Interesting.
Pamela Richardson 04:45
Yeah.
Vernon Fleming 04:48
So thinking back to activities at the school, now were you involved in any extracurricular activities?
Pamela Richardson 04:56
Yeah, I was pretty involved. I was the editor of the newspaper, I guess I was the junior editor under Steve Harris, my junior year and then editor my senior year and I was a cheerleader. So I was pretty involved in that.
Vernon Fleming 05:16
Okay. Now, do you recall any Black students participating in any extracurricular activities?
Pamela Richardson 05:22
Oh, I know they played sports. Certainly, we did not have any Black cheerleaders either year that I was there. I don't remember any trying out. I don't know about that. I don't think there were any on the newspapers there. So just sports. I wanted to ask my cousin, there was this club for guys in the high school called the Interact Club. And I was very curious whether any of the Black students were in the Interact Club?
Vernon Fleming 05:59
No. I think later on, like my senior year there may have been, I think when fully integrated, but yeah, prior to that, they were not. As far as looking at the teachers did you observe any, and I guess if you didn't share any classes with any other Blacks except the typing class-
Pamela Richardson 06:16
Well, I know there were some of the Black guys in my other classes. I had a number of classes with Joe, I'm sure. No, I never saw them treated any differently. Never heard any disparaging remarks.
Vernon Fleming 06:40
Okay. So from an acceptance standpoint as far as your peers, not from your standpoint, but your other classmates you didn't see anything you observed that made you feel that they may not have been accepted?
Pamela Richardson 06:54
I did not.
Vernon Fleming 06:55
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 06:55
Yeah, but obviously, I was totally just in my own world or something.
Vernon Fleming 07:00
Yeah. So as the year went on having been there I guess your eighth, ninth and tenth grade year, any differences or change in the way the school operated?
Pamela Richardson 07:14
Not that I was aware of.
Vernon Fleming 07:16
Dances, prom? Anything else was different?
Pamela Richardson 07:18
No, I assume that they were at the dances and the prom, but I don't know the answer to that question.
Vernon Fleming 07:27
Okay. Are you aware of any students that may have left high school to avoid integrating?
Pamela Richardson 07:35
Yes.
Vernon Fleming 07:35
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 07:35
There was one. And she was, you know, part of the Louisa aristocracy.
Vernon Fleming 07:40
Okay. Now, again, glad you didn't call any names. We're not calling names. Do you think that was the students decision? Or was she persuaded by parents or others?
Pamela Richardson 07:52
I suspect she had no part in the decision.
Vernon Fleming 07:54
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 07:55
But I don't personally know that. She was just a very quiet, compliant person,
Vernon Fleming 08:01
But that's the only one you aware of.
Pamela Richardson 08:03
That's the only one I'm aware of.
Vernon Fleming 08:05
Did she transfer before '65 or after?
Pamela Richardson 08:09
I do not believe she was there in '65.
Vernon Fleming 08:12
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 08:12
When we came back to school that fall. And Elaine pointed out, Louisa lost its accreditation about that time and I don't know if there was a connection. I do know as a senior when I went to interview for college that was an issue that I raised, that my high school had lost its accreditation, would that affect my college entry? And so Elaine pointed out that well, maybe that was the reason her family sent her to another school was that Louisa had lost its accreditation. It may not have been racial, but.
Vernon Fleming 08:48
I was not aware of that. But it so was the accreditation was lost the entire two years that you remained at Louisa? Your junior and senior year?
Pamela Richardson 08:58
As far as I know it was. I certainly know it was my senior year when I went to interview and I had no idea why. Now from this perspective, I wonder if there was some federal or state pressure on the county to integrate and that was a consequence, but I wasn't aware of that at the time.
Vernon Fleming 09:19
Okay.
Pamela Richardson 09:24
Elaine said that she interviewed Frank Drumheller, who was on the school board during that time and they discussed that whole Louisa losing its accreditation, so if you're interested in following that up somewhere here there's a record of that.
Vernon Fleming 09:41
I recall him being the principal of Apple Grove during those years.
Pamela Richardson 09:45
Interesting. Not while I was there, I don't think but.
Vernon Fleming 09:50
Yeah, because I drove the school bus and we stopped, but I recall him being a principal at Apple Grove. That entire period, especially when I was a senior. I'll take a look at that interview. I think you've already answered this, but if transferring to private school, if that was an option for you would you have done that, you think?
Pamela Richardson 10:19
I can't imagine I would have.
Vernon Fleming 10:24
Having been at Louisa, during this integration, even though you said it was kind of-
Pamela Richardson 10:29
Non-issue.
Vernon Fleming 10:31
Not an issue. Do you think it impacted you later in life as far as having had that experience?
Pamela Richardson 10:40
I'm kind of neutral, no impact. It has been shocking to me to see how naive I was, and it almost feels intentional way of keeping. And for me, it felt like women from being aware of what was going on in the world, and it might have been presented as a way of just protecting her, but the result of it was to be totally lost and oblivious to suffering or injustice or any of the things that were going on around me. And obviously, as soon as I got to college, my consciousness just you know, I went to Duke, okay. And we had a small but very active Black population. And my junior year, I moved into a transitional neighborhood in Durham and participated in a tutoring program for that neighborhood. My husband-to-be was a big basketball player, you know, so we always sat with the Black students section at the basketball games and refuse to stand during the national anthem. I mean, you know, I really got an education once I got out of Louisa, but boy, I was just raised in a bubble.
Vernon Fleming 12:18
Okay. That's the point. You say you sat in the black section in basketball? You were it? Was that just where the black set? Or was it? Yeah, that was an area designated for Black?
Pamela Richardson 12:27
Oh, no, no, that was a conscious decision of Black students and Black Students United.
Vernon Fleming 12:35
Okay. Yeah. Now, were the other whites that sat with him also, or you're kind of unique. And were you accept it?
Pamela Richardson 12:43
We will certainly accept the match and there was some amusement, you know, in you know, when you're in love, you know, you don't really know what's going on.
Vernon Fleming 12:57
So Scott was your husband, friend, he was an athlete, basketball player?
Pamela Richardson 13:02
No. Well, he came to do on a soccer scholarship, but he didn't keep his grades up high enough to play his freshman year, so I think he still played on the golf team.
Vernon Fleming 13:21
Is there anything I guess we haven't talked about that you want to share about your experience and 1965, 66?
Pamela Richardson 13:29
I have really struggled whether talk about this or not, so y'all can just wait. Um, I was really attracted to one of the Black male students in high school. He was just smart and charming and good looking. And you know, the tall, dark, handsome stranger. And I never acted on that. I think we were friends and we enjoyed each other's company. But I think the risk that would have put him at if either of us had acted on that is just just really disturbing to me. And that's part of the danger of being so naive about the world
Vernon Fleming 14:18
is actually share that because early today, a white male classmate, it's clear to me that he was in school when you were there, said he found Black female attractive, and he contemplated asking her out, but sort of like you thought problems not a good thing to do. So makes you wonder whether or not those who were opposed integration was afraid of just that fact that there will be attraction and dating and absolutely, that was a big fear of a lot of folks who were racist, right. Interesting. Yeah. appreciate you sharing that and not No names were called now will be mentioned. But no, that's that's an interesting point and but it also speaks to that you did not see colors a barrier, which says a lot, but many did see color. And like the some of the folks we interviewed earlier, the black students had had clearly different experiences that were not pleasant.
Pamela Richardson 15:25
Yeah. And that's the thing about racism, I think at that time is it was so under the radar. I mean, I'm sure they knew Blair it was okay. To be vocal and where you needed to keep it under the radar.
Vernon Fleming 15:42
Now thinking about making six, five living and lose account, and I'm not sure how frequently you came into metro or town, Louisa, but were there any visible signs of segregation that you recall saying,
Pamela Richardson 15:58
Now, you know, cautioned me to be sure that I gave my responses from that time and not from what I know now. I don't know how old I was when I heard it. It's not safe to be a Black person in Mineral after dark. I've heard that before. And I don't know that I knew that during high school. I did have a friend from Mineral. I had a couple of friends from Louisa.
Vernon Fleming 16:29
Black or white?
Pamela Richardson 16:30
White. But now my social life was you know, either at the high school or at church, which was down in eastern end of the county. I guess they were dances at the bar hall.
Vernon Fleming 16:49
Did you go to any of those dances?
Pamela Richardson 16:51
I remember going to at the Girl Scout Hall. Okay. And Elisa? And or at the in the gym at the high school? Okay. Yeah.
Vernon Fleming 17:04
Do you recall any of those being attended by blacks?
Pamela Richardson 17:08
I don't. But I don't either. I don't remember either way.
Vernon Fleming 17:17
Yeah, and someone share that that was a basketball athletic postseason awards that I guess we could come in. It was that sacred restaurant. And that black player at the time, was the first one that he'd ever seen, you know, that they allowed into sacred restaurant. So I'm not sure if you had any experiences with restaurants that were segregated?
Pamela Richardson 17:43
Well, again, you're saying that I remember hearing that Black people had to go to like a window, they could buy food there, but they had to go to an outside window to pick up their food. But I don't I don't know when I learned that.
Vernon Fleming 18:00
And I never went to (unclear) but I vividly remember a lot of places that Blacks could not go inside, that you had to buy food at a window. You could not eat, they had picnic table set up, you couldn't eat at the picnic table, you had to eat in your car. And I remember those days very well. Good. Anything else that you'd like to share, and again, don't want you to throw anyone under the bus. Just things you may remember that may be relevant for this project, trying to at least paint a picture of 1965 and what it was like to be part of that integration of Louisa High.
Pamela Richardson 18:46
The only other thing I can think of was that either junior or senior year, we had a debate. And you would certainly think that that would have been a subject of debate, but I think the debate was on the Vietnam War. So just terms of sort of my political consciousness, the War was certainly a much more prominent issue than race relations.
Vernon Fleming 19:18
Okay. Well, Dr. Richardson, thank you so much and I appreciate you coming in and being so candid in your responses. That's what we wanted. We want to just, you know, true feelings and-
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2021 March 3rd